bulkhead

[oysterboats]

does anyone know how to go about repairing the bulkhead under the galley door way floor on a fast fisher and is it a structual problem or can it be left ?

[rinus]

Hello oysterboats,

I myself have a 850, so I do not know how the construction is on the Fisherman. But I think the bulkhead in general has an important function. It is not only when the boat is in the water. The bulkhead is supposed to make the boat stiffer. But to my opnion it is most important when you hoist the boat out of the water. When you hoist, mostly the hull of the boat is a bit squezed together. And a good bulkhead is there to prevent that. Anyhow I would like to have my bulkheads in good shape and fitting to the sides of the boat, so they can catch up the forces.

Regards,

Rinus

[sandbank]

(03-01-2010 01:41 AM)oysterboats Wrote:  does anyone know how to go about repairing the bulkhead under the galley door way floor on a fast fisher and is it a structual problem or can it be left ?

A few months ago I spoke on the phone to Alan Hill, the marine architect who originally designed the Cleopatra Fast Fisher - (or Express Fisherman) and the rest of the range. Mr Hill was a director of Essex Boatbuilders at one time. One of the things he told me to check was the condition of the main bulkhead - particularly at the point where it meets the inside of the hull. It's not easy to get at - but well worth checking out for structural integrity.

The Fast Fisher is a pretty rugged boat though - and they do withstand a lot of rough treatment. If you go to the Gallery you will see one Fast Fisher which had sunk but which was salavaged and brought ashore. The wheelhouse was wrecked but the hull was intact. http://www.mycleopatra.co.uk/gallery/Fas...y/DSC01200
I spoke recently to another owner who had found himself being driven by the tide onto a steel upright at Littlehampton. An impact which would have caved in many an modern fibreglass boat had absolutely no effect on his Cleopatra.

[oysterboats]

(03-02-2010 12:04 AM)sandbank Wrote:  

(03-01-2010 01:41 AM)oysterboats Wrote:  does anyone know how to go about repairing the bulkhead under the galley door way floor on a fast fisher and is it a structual problem or can it be left ?

A few months ago I spoke on the phone to Alan Hill, the marine architect who originally designed the Cleopatra Fast Fisher - (or Express Fisherman) and the rest of the range. Mr Hill was a director of Essex Boatbuilders at one time. One of the things he told me to check was the condition of the main bulkhead - particularly at the point where it meets the inside of the hull. It's not easy to get at - but well worth checking out for structural integrity.

The Fast Fisher is a pretty rugged boat though - and they do withstand a lot of rough treatment. If you go to the Gallery you will see one Fast Fisher which had sunk but which was salavaged and brought ashore. The wheelhouse was wrecked but the hull was intact. http://www.mycleopatra.co.uk/gallery/Fas...y/DSC01200
I spoke recently to another owner who had found himself being driven by the tide onto a steel upright at Littlehampton. An impact which would have caved in many an modern fibreglass boat had absolutely no effect on his Cleopatra.

it seems the bulkhead in question has a fibre glass outer covering a chipboard inner, the same material that was under the hatches ,obviously for support we all know what happens to chipboard when it gets wet. ive already replaced these with half inch ply and glassed them in. my main concern tho is this bulkhead which seems to have suffered the same fate as the support under the hatches, my point is if the stuctural integrity is so much at risk from this bulkhead why was it made from glass covered chipboard also at my very slow speed aprx 8/10 knots is it likely to be a major issue

[sandbank]

Hello again Oysterboats

Rinus has already asked me to contact Alan Hill on another issue - so I will try to reach him today and will ask him what the bulkhead is made of.

Before contacting him though, can I be quite sure exactly what part it is that you are saying is made of "chipboard enclosed in fibre glass".
Is this the main bulkhead between the cockpit and the cabin in which the cabin door is set?

Do you happen to have a photograph of this part that you could email to me? My email address is dmj@newsnet.co.uk.

I have to say I would be very surprised if glassed or veneered chipboard was been the material used for the main bulkhead in the original construction because - as Rinus says - bulkheads are vital to the structural integrity of the boat. Marine ply would be a far better material .

However veneered chipboard MAY have been used for the partitions between cabin and toilet and - if you have one - cabin and wardrobe. (There is, I believe, a substantial framework of solid timber beams beneath floor level)

There are, I think, two different layouts of Express Fisherman. Most Fast Fishers have steering and toilet on the port side - but I believe some have steering and toilet on the starboard side. I don't know which version is the earlier.

One of the experts on the repair and restoration of Express Fishermen is "Falkland Fishers" in Port Talbot, South Wales. I think their restoration of "Black Pearl" (formerly called "Clio") is featured in the Gallery on the "My Cleopatra" site - but there are even more details and more photographs on http://www.ggfboatrepairs.co.uk/aboutus.html

This is very interesting and well worth looking at

However we have to remember that when Express Fishermen were built in the late 60's and early '70s they were sold new complete with engine for less than £2500. ...and I doubt if anyone expected them to last this long!

[SteveB]

Hi oysterboats, regarding chipboard in the bulkheads, I have stripped my 700 completely, the only place I found chipboard glassed in was under the foredeck, which, like you say, gets wet and turns into porridge, my other bulkheads were ply glassed in but mine were rotten so I took them all out and replaced with new, have a look in the gallery under `rebuilding talisman` to see how I got over it, Steve, sorry, should have added that the strengtheners that run the length of the hull below were also chipboard glassed in, that is to say the `ribs` that form the chines, I cut them all out and glassed them in solid glasswork, a lot of work but I now have peace of mind that she is now stronger than when she was built, I too could not believe that a boat builder would use chipboard

[colingel]

(03-03-2010 12:00 PM)SteveB Wrote:  Hi oysterboats, regarding chipboard in the bulkheads, I have stripped my 700 completely, the only place I found chipboard glassed in was under the foredeck, which, like you say, gets wet and turns into porridge, my other bulkheads were ply glassed in but mine were rotten so I took them all out and replaced with new, have a look in the gallery under `rebuilding talisman` to see how I got over it, Steve, sorry, should have added that the strengtheners that run the length of the hull below were also chipboard glassed in, that is to say the `ribs` that form the chines, I cut them all out and glassed them in solid glasswork, a lot of work but I now have peace of mind that she is now stronger than when she was built, I too could not believe that a boat builder would use chipboard

Hi Steve

Looks great you will have great boat when finished.

Colin

[SteveB]

thanks colin, the covers are coming off today to start building the wheelhouse and hopefully have her up and running late summer, Steve

[colingel]

(03-03-2010 02:24 PM)SteveB Wrote:  thanks colin, the covers are coming off today to start building the wheelhouse and hopefully have her up and running late summer, Steve

would love to follow your build of wheelhouse.I need to get on with my own and would love some ideas.I bought a ferro-cement sail boat at the end of last season and it badly needs a coat of paint to get it back in the water this year.
Too many projects not enough time !!!

all the best with yours

Colin

[sandbank]

Hello Guys

I spoke to the designer Alan Hill today who fair play - was trying to remember details from 40 years ago!. He says that glassed-in marine ply was used throughout for the bulkheads.

The key thing to watch - he says - is where the bulkhead is bonded to the hull. There shouldn't be any movement - or rubbing - there. If there is, it's better to rebond it to prevent the chafing movement.

Usually he says - if the hull looks OK from outside then it's OK inside. In fact he says the bulkhead could even be taken out completely. He claims the hull would probably be strong enough without bulkheads. He says most damage done to hulls is not on the water but when the boats are being transported by trailer and are not properly tied down - leading to impact damage as the trailer surmounts road humps and bumps.

I'm surprised to read in Steve's posting that glassed-chipboard was used for the stiffening frame. Maybe they changed things after Alan left the company! It's certainly something to check out - and a bit of a worry.

When I've transcribed everything that Alan Hill told me I'll post some more detailed notes on here.

Sandbank.